I got flamed!

Six · I got flamed!

So I joined the llama yahoo list asked some questions like "will they gaurd cattle? what do they eat? etc..etc... stated very clearly that I was there to learn not that I was just going to get one & never look at it again

Some lady flamed me and bashed "cattle folk" as she called us

said that "cattle folk" just let them run (cows) with no shelters and no water (meaning eat snow) and pretty much just didn't look at them ever

She says "cattle folk" won't take the 4 times per year when the llamas need their tootsies trimmed, shearing & any other maintenence they need

4 times a year??? seems pretty low maintenence to me she obviously dosen't have cattle or horses

I think I'm in shock someone would jump all over me for trying to learn

McBunz

Post your post from here on their board.. like a big cattle outfit is not
going to take care of their cattle..or herd guards...

Ignor this person...there are always trouble makers on a lot of
these boards...someone will probably give you the answers you need.

Carlson

I watched a show on guard Llama and they said you need to get them when they are quit young. And they eat what the cattle eat plus bush and leaves. On the show they say they are not pets they guard the cattle.
The lady that bashed cattle owners is probably someone who can not sell hers. Out here at auctions you can buy them under fifty bucks or some people give them away for free.

Betty B

Yikes sounds like a real friendly, non judgemental group we would all like to be on

littlestep

Post their address..we flame back!

McBunz

Yah.. do that..nobody picks on our Toddler.. Nobody..

Joyce

That's right, she's just a baby!!
Stacy why don't you just get a book on them and read for yourself. Then also they must have a association with the members list names and email the people who have farms and talk to them. I've got the best info from talking to these long time goat farmers and breeders. Then we can have a Llamah forum right here!! lol starting with you

Six

I did get a nice response from a lady in Bellingham Washington

This is a public board you can read but have to be a member to post
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/llama/
My original post was "llama questions" she changed it to "cows & llamas"
I give her a little blast of my own this morning

but that won't be on till the moderater ok's it and just in case she didn't I sent it direct to

Joyce

Well it sounds like this lady is saying Llamas are still prey and not good for guarding anything. That's pretty much what I had read when we considered them too. Some claim Donkeys are good for guarding too.
I still think a few good dogs do it best.

I love Alpacas! No good for guarding though LOL

littlestep

Llamas
During 1990, Iowa State University researchers surveyed 145 producers, primarily in Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, California and Oregon, to determine the effectiveness of llamas for reducing coyote and dog predation on sheep. Producers reported that they lost an average of 21 percent of their ewes and lambs annually before acquiring a llama, and 7 percent afterwards. An average annual savings of $1,253 was reported by 87 of the producers. Eighty percent of the producers rated their guard llamas as effective or very effective. In a Utah study, producers with llamas lost significantly fewer sheep to predators than producers without llamas during the first year of use, but sheep mortalities did not differ between producers with and without llamas during the second year. In Utah, 90 percent of producers rated their guard llamas as effective or very effective. Nine percent of producers in Colorado used llamas to guard sheep during 1999.

Llamas are naturally aggressive toward coyotes and dogs. Typical responses of llamas to coyotes and dogs are being alert; alarm calling; walking to or running toward the predator; chasing, kicking, or pawing the predator; herding the sheep; or positioning themselves between the sheep and predator.

The average producer used one gelded male llama for 250 to 300 sheep in 250 to 300 acre pastures. One llama was more effective than multiple llamas. The effectiveness of gelded males, intact males and females was similar. However, more intact males (25 percent of 61) than gelded males (5 percent of 135) attempted to breed ewes. Some llamas were aggressive toward the sheep.

Nearly all llamas in the Iowa survey were not raised with sheep and were not trained to guard sheep. The adjustment period for the llamas and sheep lasted only a few hours for half the llamas, and nearly 80 percent adjusted within a week. Llamas introduced to sheep in corrals were apparently more effective guardians initially than those introduced in pastures, but in time losses were similar. Otherwise, the llamas' success was not related to age of llama when introduced, age of llama (after 1 or 2 years old) when guarding, if lambs were present or absent when the llama was introduced, or between open and covered (forests, shrub lands, gullies, ravines, etc.) habitat.

Gelded males cost $700 to $800 and intact males about $100 less. Most producers reported that daily care for llamas was the same as for sheep and no special feeds were provided. Average annual expense was $90 for feed (not including pasture) and $15 for veterinary costs. A 250-pound gelded llama consumes 7 to 10 pounds of good grass hay per day. Depending on the area, llamas need to be dewormed two to four times per year. If food is provided for llamas, place it in a feeder high enough to be out of reach of sheep.

For information on llamas or names of breeders, contact the International Llama Association, P.O. Box 370505, Denver, Colorado 80237, (303) 756-9004; or the Rocky Mountain Llama and Alpaca Association, 593 19-3/4 Road, Grand Junction, Colorado 81503, (970) 241-7921

Joyce

Running. chasing and kicking might work for some predators, but I need something that will kill predators when all else fails ! I would find myself wanting to get something else to protect the Llamas

McBunz

I had some of the neigbours alpaccas here one summer.. Watched them
chase the crap out of a coyote until its tongue hung out. They worked as
a group, by some cutting corners,some standing and waiting while others
chased. Also saw the flattened remains of a cat they caught.. If nothing
else the noise they make when an intuder is near would warn you to
get you gun out. Very loud.. Dogs would do Stacey next to no good as
she could not fence that much land in as dog proof fashion to keep them
home. We are not talking a 100 acres here. And with hundreds of cattle,
they have to be able to graze freely.

Joyce

No dogs would not stick around without a fence. They would be gone guarding the next neighbors herd & making their dogs pregnant LOL happened to a friend of mine.
Llamas sound like they do better in a pack then just one!